Aviation enthusiasts left intimidated while viewing at St Athan
Posted: September 7, 2012 Filed under: Accidents & Incidents, Cardiff Airport & RAF St Athan | Tags: Air, DGX, EGDX, Enthusiasts, Forum, Intimidated, MoD St Athan, South Wales Aviation Group, Spotters, St Athan, SWAG, Threatened, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, Wales Air Forum, Welsh Government 11 Comments »
A number of aviation enthusiasts have of late been offered abusive behaviour whilst viewing aircraft on the Old Llantwit Major road which is situated alongside the Southern Boundary of RAF St Athan, Vale of Glamorgan.
The individual who has caused enthusiasts distress is believed to be associated with the farm situated near the crash gate. This has occurred on more than one occasion whereby claims the land is private property owned by the farm, preventing lawful access for members of the public to enjoy their hobby.
The Farm in question is located at the end of the ‘Old’ Llantwit Major road with a stoned track linking it to St Athan Village. It is believed but not confirmed that the farm is now owned by the Welsh Assembly Government after being purchased to extend the military base as part of the Defence Training Academy. The farmhouse itself may have to be vacated soon as part of this purchase agreement, however the ground itself will remain to be farmed under notice.
A spokesman of the South Wales Aviation Group said “All enthusiasts are known to park well to the side of the road taking into consideration access requirements of the farm. We have been viewing from this location since the 80s and are fully aware of the public right of way”.
Mr Ray Eade, a Highways inspector for the Vale of Glamorgan Council has stated that the track in question is no longer classified as a road, but is now identified as designated track/path No.19- Vale of Glamorgan. There is full public assess to this site by vehicle or on foot. This has not yet been confirmed in writing, but maps are available to view at the Vale of Glamorgan Council offices at the Docks if necessary. The Old Llantwit Major road is not owned by the farmer, council or Welsh Assembly Government and is akin to common ground, being an old ‘Civic Path’ with public right of way since time immemorial.
The actions of the individual has made some enthusiasts feel intimidated to an extent they advised their members not to use the area until they had clarification of the issue.
The Wales Air Forum team have visited this exact location previously and have witnessed the South Wales Aviation Group and other enthusiasts in this particular location and cannot find a reason why the individual has decided to intimidate the enthusiasts.
We stress to everyone that enthusiasts do not under any circumstances purposely intend to aggravate the situation as it may have detrimental affect for other potential enthusiasts. We ask enthusiasts to continue to take into consideration the requirement to leave plenty of room for farm vehicles to access the farm at all times and also not to drop litter.
We also strongly advise that any instance of threatening behaviour, or damage caused to any enthusiasts’ property should be reported initially to the Police at nearby Llantwit Major or Barry Police Stations. Please ensure that you note any offending vehicle registrations and if possible to take photo’s and/or video footage of instances.
Im am a local farmer and I am certain it is owned by the farmer in question.
Thanks for the info there Jim. We were assured the information was accurate but if we find out otherwise it will be amended.
Are you under the impression that the rest of our information is accurate in accordance to what you believe?
I have seen this information posted on the South Wales Aviation Group Facebook Page – there are some comments on there which seem to be a bit personal against the farmer who in all of this isnt the “culprit” according to the facebook page its is his son….
Has anybody not had the decency to go and speak to the farmer? Im sure he would be co-operative
We are aware that it is his son that has been named as the culprit and we are also aware of the nature of the alleged incidents.
If the alleged incidents seem to happen on land that is a public right of way then no doubt they may be concerned of implications actually being on their land.
As part of investigations for the article i have visited the site and cannot see a reason for the anger against the enthusiast. No damage to any property, no litter and there certainly wouldnt be any reason for noise complaints.
If you have any contact details for the owner then please send them to me at walesairforum@hotmail.co.uk
Thanks
the farm in question have been the target of thefts lately and i believe this is why the sign was errected at the bottom of the lane and also it was not the farmer but the police who put this sign in place…there has been numerous things happening there in recent months…a girl attacked, cars stolen,gangs of people hanging about suspiciously and i have to say when there was a flight of a plane that was due its last flight the lane was full of cars on both sides making it very hard for the tractors to get through…the farmer in question is also the man who tries his best to maintain this track by filling in pot holes when time permits…the farmer has said there is not an issue with people watching the planes or pedestrians walking dogs etc just an issue of the cars…and as the track is mainly loose stone there is bound to be flying stones from tractors..and is it right that you park your car at owners risk??…fair enough if the car was rammed or bumped but flying stones on a loose gravel lane? does this mean we claim on the council’s insurance when they are gritting the roads and our cars are hit with flying grit? no one has had the decency to speak to the farmer but instead ranted all over the internet which is very childish to be honest the decent thing would have been to see the farmer and had a chat with him…i often walk my dog up this track and have never had a problem with the son or farmer in question infact they have always thanked me for holding my dog to the side of the track to let them pass…one more thing to add when the combine is out which at this time of year it is there is most definately no room for cars to be parked its a wide piece of machinery and if the farmer is not able to get this through then there work is lost ,and as they can only do this when its sunny they have a very short window to do it in.these farmers work hard to put food on our tables working 18-20 hour days in the summer period so don’t need the abuse and torment from people and you wonder why they have an attitude…maybe if you worked there hours and under their pressure you may be more understanding…im sure they would love 5minutes to stand around watching the planes!
Again you should take this up with the farmer! you all know where farm is so theres no excuse
In respect of the comments, I was one of the four individuals concerned with the incident when the son of the farmer threatened us on the day in question. In one form or another we have attended this public right of way since the 1970′s. We have had many a pleasent chat with the people who have farmed and visited the site over the years. All have been shown respect to our knowledge and never in my time have I seen vehicles impeeding the roadway or farm traffic in any way as they are always parked on the grass sections, even if it has had heavy rainfall. The comments in Facebook do not imply the farmer is in any way involved, far from it, if you read the carefully written comment you will see that it is the son who is implied, and as I was a direct witness to the unacceptable behaviour from the son, you will have to accept my word as I have seen the incident. Indeed all four individuals present that day are educated people of high moral standards, with impecable backgrounds, having worked or currently working for a government based agency where our standards are unquestionable. It may be noted that all four are signatories to the official secrets act and have no reason to be at the location other than to go about their hobby peacefully and without incident.
It has been noted of late that the son has shown little or no respect for those who visit the area close to the entrance of the farm, driving both large tractors and his 4wd vehicle at speeds which are inappropriate given that everyone else including the farmer himself and his other employees drive at sped which do not in any way throw up gravel or even dust. Sadly the son seems to have pleasure in covering every vehicle in stones etc, the look of satisfaction on his face says it all. This we feel is highly immature and childish. He has every right to be agrieved at incidents which occour on his farm, but these incidents have all occoured on what is a confirmed public right of way.
As a direct result of this standard of immature driving the indcient which sparked the whole situation off occoured when the son drove towards the farm at a fast speed for the conditions present in a large 4WD nissan crew cab, towing a tri axle trailer with two ISO tanks on the rear. The fact is that he narrowly missed a female and her three dogs on the nearside track just prior to the spotters present on that day. I was the one who shouted ‘Slow down’ and at which the son braked heavilly, skidded to a halt and immediately vacated his vehicle in a threatening manner, shouting loudly and offering threats at close range. Insisiting we all left as ‘he owned the land we were standing on’… He would not discuss the situation and whilst we had every intention of waiting the very short time it transpired to see the aircraft arriving from the USA, we were then subject to a barrage of threats from him whilst driving his tractor in the field adjacent. At the point where threats were made to ‘damage’ our vehicles by him removing them, we made our way. Again he would not discuss the matter at all and made it plain as to what would occour should we not move The very next day a party of ‘children’ on a day out in the custody of their ‘Helper’ were verbally abused by the same individual and left in a distressed situation having hoped to have a nice afternoon watching the vintage planes taking off and flying about. There have been many further incidents of this type which are known to people associated with the Wales Air Forum.
As you may be able to gleen from the text written here, no-one is able to discuss the matter with the farmer / son, and having waited patiently for replys from the Welsh Assembly, Vale of Glamorgan council, etc, we have ascertained there is a public right of way at the location. The lane is not owned by the farmer, if you wish to attend the docks offices, the map can be viewed which clearly shows the public right of way.
The local Aircraft enthusiasts that visit the lane do not go stealing from the farm. The local aircraft enthusiasts who visit the lane do not sexually assault females. The local aircraft enthusiasts who visit the lane do nothing to upset landowners, members of the public or otherwise. I think you will find farms are targetted by professional thieves as recently publicised by the BBC and known in time immemorial by most individuals. Aircraft enthusiasts are there to watch aircraft. If there are situations where farm plant are of a size that could cause problems passing, comman sense and courtousy resolve the situation.
If the farmer or his son wishes to stop, chat and discuss the situation we would be most happy to act as lookouts as we generally do, and assist with details of vehicles we see visiting the premises whilst the farmer is away. Even the Police at British Airports now appreciate with their security that aircraft spotters are mostly genuine people who are a benefit to them. What aircraft spotters dont want is abuse thrown at them when they see something which could have easily been avoided by sensible driving in the prevailing conditions.
The public right of way is unquestionable, the location therefore comes under the public order act as regards behaviour and whilst one resident thinks it may be acceptable for gravel to damage other peoples cars, being a public place we now have a confirmed right to claim from the other parties insurance should it be considered that the driving standard was such that care wasnt taken to avoid damage. There is only one individual who appears to drive unacceptably…..no guesses who we are on about!…
There will be up an coming visits from enthusiasts in the forthcoming weeks. If the farmer or his son wish to have a chat and pass the time of day in a friendly amnner, I’m sure you wil find we will all shake hands and look to the future being there for each other. The ball is firmly in the court of one individual.
SWAG have promoted it as the farmer is kind of culprut or a criminal, its the farmers business and reading comments above the farming industry is under a lot of thefts at recent.
It is his business and he needs the space to bring animals and machinery through, I am a farmer myself and know how much hassle parked cars and people in the way are, Im a local aviation enthusiast myself but dont spot at the airports. Theres nothing wrong in spotting hobby just give consideration to the farmer, he’s been there a lot longer than you have.
I also have to mention that the situation has been mishandled by promoting it over the internet and it could be highly embaressing to the farmer, and even could attract unwanted attention to his farm by even posting the location of the farm! I think the SWAG and WAF should remove there articles at once and like its said above, have a chat to the farmer.
Not a kill joy or a critic, I am also a fan of aviation and in the business myself so i know how situations like this can be.
I think Mr. Jones has totally misread the updated situation. I for one have been spotting at this location longer than the son of the farmer has been on this earth. I have always taken the time out to be polite to the farm staff and owners. I for one have never ever seen parking which has in any way intruded on their space, and would certainly make comment if any aviation enthusiast did so. The cars have always been parked on the grass OFF THE ROADWAY to my knowledge. I for one have seen the driving of this young man in his black pickup and it leaves a lot to be desired. He only has himself to blame for his irrational youthfullness.
It appears that SWAG have done the correct thing in bringing this to the attention of the public. There is no question it is a public right of way, the driver – farmer call him what you will has no right to offer threats to people, tell them to get off his land when it quite plainly isnt, and really should take a long hard close look at his self and his behaviour. It seems from the comments from the Vale resident above that he has done all the right things, didnt seem to be a problem in any way, and yet this young farmer for whatever reason has taken umbrance at actions which seem wholey appropriate in the circumstances. Can you imagine his vehicle leaving the road or colliding with the lady and her dogs or even the spotters present?…. Is anyone in the farming community telling him his behaviour is totally inappropriate?… has anyone not read that this guy is not talking to anyone, but behaving in a threatening manner and telling people to clear off…how can members of the SWAG talk with someone who wont?…..
SWAG have done what was needed in putting the legal situation regarding the land in the public domain so the farmer, who will no doubt hear of these facts by the grapevine can either back off a bit and make good or be aware that he could end up in the shit if he carries on in this manner which will do the situation no good whatsoever for anyone. Its inevitable if he doesnt see sense that the police are going to become involved at some point, what then?.. If farmers want respect they are not going to get it by one of their own behaving in a stupid irrational manner….. There’s enough damage done in this arguement, its time to put this matter to bed and everyone behave with respect to each other, and that might just mean someone having to eat a little humble pie.
Older generation spotter,
Well what was the st Athan airfield site before it was an airfield? A ferry port you suggest? No, it was farmland and farms have been around a lot longer than aviation? So yes the farmland around that site has been there for years.
So it’s the farmers son thats causing these issues? Well go and chat to the farmer himself and firstly find out if the land in question is private land or public? Sort that out first.
Then talk to the farmer about his son, If that fails, then look at contacting the police. I totalley agree that this abuse is not nesseceary but police is a last resort.
It’s not all farmers are like this etheir after you said “if farmers want respect…..” it’s this individual matter and the hole farming community in the vale is not hostile.
Like I said before I’m also an aviation fan but not a spotter, the land dispute and abusive comments are two separate issues.
But just go and have a chat with the actual farmer and not the son, then if that fails then take it too the police.
I know for a fact that the sign placed at the bottom of the “road” was not placed there by the farmer, this was placed there by the ST ATHAN COMMUNITY POLICE OFFICER… after liaising with the RAF Police who will also be increasing patrols along the fence line (inside the camp) given that the camp is a military establishment is covered under this act….
The Official Secrets Act 1911
There are numerous areas that are considered prohibited places under s3 of the Official Secrets Act where it is illegal to collect, record, publish, or communicate to any other person photographs or information which is calculated to be or might be or is intended to be directly or indirectly useful to an enemy. These include:
Military establishments, munitions stores, aircraft and ships
Given that these photos are put up on the internet then this could be “might be or is intended to be directly or indirectly useful to an enemy” – INDIRECTLY!!